An Historic Blog Post
On Twitter last night I posted a correction to an email blast from President Barack Obama where he said, “this is a historic step.” The correction of course, is that it was “an historic step.” This is based on everything I ever learned in English class and read in any grammar books through my schooling years.
I should have known that there would be many who would respond and defend our beloved President simply because of their feelings for him, but there were just as many valid responses challenging the “an” vs. “a” preceding “h” words rule.
It was certainly entertaining reading. But know this: I know I’m right. I don’t need any additional reading or instruction on this particular point. You can show it to me, and I’ll happily play along, but it’s never going to change what I know to be right. If you want to show me your links in hopes of changing my mind, I’ll simply show you mine.
Here’s the deal, folks: there are some who feel that “a historic” is now acceptable, but there are none (with any clout, anyway) that say “an historic” is wrong. If I’m writing something to the entire populace (as I am with every post I make here, I assure you), I’ll choose the one that is universally correct. Sure, some might read “an historic” and think, “oh — that’s the old usage,” or perhaps, “well, he’s being quite formal now, isn’t he?” They might even think I’m being an old fuddy-duddy. But they won’t believe me to be wrong, at least not after a minimal education on the subject. However, if you write, “a historic,” there will be many who think you’re wrong simply because they’ve never heard of the “new allowances.” Many of those won’t even bother to research it one bit, they’ll just know you’re wrong and be done with you. Like me. Why risk it?
February 18th, 2009 at 9:18 am
Great post Dave, people tend to get mad when folks correct their grammar. But without people correcting each others grammar the English language would slowly deteriorate… Oh wait that’s already happening. π
February 18th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
Great post Dave, people tend to get mad when folks correct their grammar. But without people correcting each others grammar the English language would slowly deteriorate… Oh wait that’s already happening. π
February 18th, 2009 at 9:27 am
‘A’ historic is correct. Check your strunk and whites please…..
H is not a vowel, at least since I last checked.
February 18th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
‘A’ historic is correct. Check your strunk and whites please…..
H is not a vowel, at least since I last checked.
February 18th, 2009 at 9:39 am
Dave, you and I are much alike. I was very resistant to the notion that “a historic” was correct. It just doesn’t SOUND right to me. Plus, I almost always favor the old forms over the new, lax ones. One huge pet peeve: people who use the plural pronoun “their” when they really mean “he,” or “she.”
But the rule on this is pretty clear. Use “an” before words that start with a vowel sound. Historic doesn’t. The first sound is the “h” sound. Thus, even though I am very reluctant to admit it myself, “a historic” is actually correct.
You wouldn’t suggest, I dare say, that this was “an helpful discussion” we’re having. And I distinctly remember you saying, on MGG, “I’m having trouble finding a hotel room” (or words to that effect), not “an hotel room.”
So why would historic be preceded by an “an”?
Having said all of that, I laud you for caring and for sticking to your guns. I’ve done the very same thing on the very same subject. It’s just that I have reluctantly come to the conclusion that it was an error to do so.
For what it’s worth, I DO believe you to be wrong. Even though you know you’re right.
Seems to me that we should get John Braun and Pilot Pete and a few brews and some of those filets John was grilling the other night and have a symposium about it. Or would that be an symposium?
February 18th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
Dave, you and I are much alike. I was very resistant to the notion that “a historic” was correct. It just doesn’t SOUND right to me. Plus, I almost always favor the old forms over the new, lax ones. One huge pet peeve: people who use the plural pronoun “their” when they really mean “he,” or “she.”
But the rule on this is pretty clear. Use “an” before words that start with a vowel sound. Historic doesn’t. The first sound is the “h” sound. Thus, even though I am very reluctant to admit it myself, “a historic” is actually correct.
You wouldn’t suggest, I dare say, that this was “an helpful discussion” we’re having. And I distinctly remember you saying, on MGG, “I’m having trouble finding a hotel room” (or words to that effect), not “an hotel room.”
So why would historic be preceded by an “an”?
Having said all of that, I laud you for caring and for sticking to your guns. I’ve done the very same thing on the very same subject. It’s just that I have reluctantly come to the conclusion that it was an error to do so.
For what it’s worth, I DO believe you to be wrong. Even though you know you’re right.
Seems to me that we should get John Braun and Pilot Pete and a few brews and some of those filets John was grilling the other night and have a symposium about it. Or would that be an symposium?
February 18th, 2009 at 9:48 am
Guy — you’re missing the key element of this which is the “3 syllable rule” — Check into it. It’s the cornerstone of my beliefs here.
February 18th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
Guy — you’re missing the key element of this which is the “3 syllable rule” — Check into it. It’s the cornerstone of my beliefs here.
February 18th, 2009 at 9:48 am
Just say it in a cockney accent, and “an historic day, guv’nah” sounds just fine.
February 18th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
Just say it in a cockney accent, and “an historic day, guv’nah” sounds just fine.
February 18th, 2009 at 10:16 am
I love a country where you can argue so vociferously about something that ultimately is not of grave consequence.
The same site that tells me about the 3-syllable rule also says:
“Al in all, it appears that “a historic” will win the day, although “an historic” will still no doubt be used where the “h” sound is weak.”
I guess the real point is it’s probably best not to scold someone for poor grammar if you’re not correct, or (to give you the benefit of the doubt) if you’re usage is deprecated and his is not.
February 18th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
I love a country where you can argue so vociferously about something that ultimately is not of grave consequence.
The same site that tells me about the 3-syllable rule also says:
“Al in all, it appears that “a historic” will win the day, although “an historic” will still no doubt be used where the “h” sound is weak.”
I guess the real point is it’s probably best not to scold someone for poor grammar if you’re not correct, or (to give you the benefit of the doubt) if you’re usage is deprecated and his is not.
February 18th, 2009 at 10:19 am
Dave I agree that to my ear (and my heart) as you point out “an historic” sound right. However I did research it ( I love it when a blog post makes me work :)) and according to the AP Stylebook 2005 for a word that begins with “H” the usage of A is correct.
” Use the article a before consonant sounds: a historic event, a one-year term (sounds as if it begins with a w), a united stand (sounds like you). Use the article an before vowel sounds: an energy crisis, an hon-orable man (the h is
silent), an NBA record (sounds like it begins with the letter e), an 1890s cel- ebration. ters in the word or phrase. An acronym is a word formed from the first letter or letters of a series of words: laser (light ampli-fication by
stimulated emission of radiation). An abbreviation is not an acronym.”
February 18th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
Dave I agree that to my ear (and my heart) as you point out “an historic” sound right. However I did research it ( I love it when a blog post makes me work :)) and according to the AP Stylebook 2005 for a word that begins with “H” the usage of A is correct.
” Use the article a before consonant sounds: a historic event, a one-year term (sounds as if it begins with a w), a united stand (sounds like you). Use the article an before vowel sounds: an energy crisis, an hon-orable man (the h is
silent), an NBA record (sounds like it begins with the letter e), an 1890s cel- ebration. ters in the word or phrase. An acronym is a word formed from the first letter or letters of a series of words: laser (light ampli-fication by
stimulated emission of radiation). An abbreviation is not an acronym.”
February 18th, 2009 at 10:29 am
Guy — my link points to my own post because, well, it’s the only reference I require. As I said, I know I’m right. π
February 18th, 2009 at 3:29 pm
Guy — my link points to my own post because, well, it’s the only reference I require. As I said, I know I’m right. π
February 18th, 2009 at 10:30 am
It is a damned shame (not a “damn shame!!”) to see AP and Chicago style manuals change from being correct to being wrong. What has come of this world?
February 18th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
It is a damned shame (not a “damn shame!!”) to see AP and Chicago style manuals change from being correct to being wrong. What has come of this world?
February 18th, 2009 at 10:31 am
Look, the deal with the 3-syllables is this: we say hisTORic, not HIStoric.. the “h” is quite soft in proper usage, and as such requires a preceding “an.”
February 18th, 2009 at 3:31 pm
Look, the deal with the 3-syllables is this: we say hisTORic, not HIStoric.. the “h” is quite soft in proper usage, and as such requires a preceding “an.”
February 18th, 2009 at 10:35 am
Here’s an interesting article I read once about how historians felt about this up to 1971.
http://content.wisconsinhistory.org/u?/wmh,25445
The easiest thing to do is stick and adjective or an adverb in there, as need. This was a truly historic blog post, Dave.
February 18th, 2009 at 3:35 pm
Here’s an interesting article I read once about how historians felt about this up to 1971.
http://content.wisconsinhistory.org/u?/wmh,25445
The easiest thing to do is stick and adjective or an adverb in there, as need. This was a truly historic blog post, Dave.
February 18th, 2009 at 11:17 am
Dave… according to an old copy of the Chicago Manual of Style, which I have been using since college, makes the distinction that if the first sound of the world is a vowel, then you use “an.” Otherwise, the CMS says to use “a” in front of H words. It is A historic occasion!!
I have other pet peeves than this (e.g., there is no such word as irregardless and I hope shows are tapped in front of a live studio audience since a dead audience would be a bit stinky). I wouldn’t worry about it!!
February 18th, 2009 at 4:17 pm
Dave… according to an old copy of the Chicago Manual of Style, which I have been using since college, makes the distinction that if the first sound of the world is a vowel, then you use “an.” Otherwise, the CMS says to use “a” in front of H words. It is A historic occasion!!
I have other pet peeves than this (e.g., there is no such word as irregardless and I hope shows are tapped in front of a live studio audience since a dead audience would be a bit stinky). I wouldn’t worry about it!!
February 18th, 2009 at 11:26 am
You don’t buy ‘an’ house, you buy ‘a’ house. You don’t talk about ‘an’ historic event, you talk about ‘a’ historic event. (Note how my example of ‘house’ uses the H-sound).
Also, you don’t bring ‘an’ troops home, you bring ‘all’ troops home. Given the context above, I believe ‘all’ would be the most constructive application.
February 18th, 2009 at 4:26 pm
You don’t buy ‘an’ house, you buy ‘a’ house. You don’t talk about ‘an’ historic event, you talk about ‘a’ historic event. (Note how my example of ‘house’ uses the H-sound).
Also, you don’t bring ‘an’ troops home, you bring ‘all’ troops home. Given the context above, I believe ‘all’ would be the most constructive application.
February 18th, 2009 at 11:28 am
“House” is monosyllabic, Mike, so the emphasis is on the first (only) syllable. As such, you’re correct saying, “a house.”
February 18th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
“House” is monosyllabic, Mike, so the emphasis is on the first (only) syllable. As such, you’re correct saying, “a house.”
February 18th, 2009 at 1:08 pm
The funny thing is that I had to look it up before I joined the Twitter discussion. It’s a usage that I’ve gone back and forth about for some time.
My gut reaction was that you were right, but in every credible online source I could find, the trump rule is the hard “H” sound at the beginning, and this includes some serious grammar nazis that get everything else right. It also includes the style guides of every major publication I could find.
The only online sources I could find that support your take were in comments to posted resources.
The “an” usage appears to be the throwback going back to when the h sound was dropped by our English friends. The only reference I could find to the syllabic stress (the three syllable rule) was copy editing resource The Slot, which nixed that as an argument (last paragraph).
I’ve enjoyed doing the research, so thanks for starting the discussion. I am surprised, though, that you refuse to consider the overwhelming body of evidence that disagrees with you.
In any event, it really has been fun doing the research. π
Bryan
February 18th, 2009 at 6:08 pm
The funny thing is that I had to look it up before I joined the Twitter discussion. It’s a usage that I’ve gone back and forth about for some time.
My gut reaction was that you were right, but in every credible online source I could find, the trump rule is the hard “H” sound at the beginning, and this includes some serious grammar nazis that get everything else right. It also includes the style guides of every major publication I could find.
The only online sources I could find that support your take were in comments to posted resources.
The “an” usage appears to be the throwback going back to when the h sound was dropped by our English friends. The only reference I could find to the syllabic stress (the three syllable rule) was copy editing resource The Slot, which nixed that as an argument (last paragraph).
I’ve enjoyed doing the research, so thanks for starting the discussion. I am surprised, though, that you refuse to consider the overwhelming body of evidence that disagrees with you.
In any event, it really has been fun doing the research. π
Bryan
February 18th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
Dave, I was totally with you on this. “An historic” sounds right to my ear, and “a historic” does not. I’m a communications professional and a former copy editor. If anything, I was more confident that you were right than you are.
But now that I see that the AP Stylebook and Chicago Stylebook are against us (a colleague pointed this out), I’m forced to concede: “a historic” is correct. If you’re going to continue using a deprecated style, I can only suggest that you not get caught.
February 18th, 2009 at 8:49 pm
Dave, I was totally with you on this. “An historic” sounds right to my ear, and “a historic” does not. I’m a communications professional and a former copy editor. If anything, I was more confident that you were right than you are.
But now that I see that the AP Stylebook and Chicago Stylebook are against us (a colleague pointed this out), I’m forced to concede: “a historic” is correct. If you’re going to continue using a deprecated style, I can only suggest that you not get caught.
February 18th, 2009 at 4:06 pm
That’s just it. If this is deprecated, it’s only happened recently and there are MANY of us who are completely unaware that what once was verboten is now acceptable.
It will take a LONG time before “an historic” is considered incorrect (if ever), and I’ll continue using it until then and likely beyond (because, you know, I like being a stubborn jackass about some things! :-))
Just because AP and Chicago get it wrong doesn’t mean we have to follow suit.
February 18th, 2009 at 9:06 pm
That’s just it. If this is deprecated, it’s only happened recently and there are MANY of us who are completely unaware that what once was verboten is now acceptable.
It will take a LONG time before “an historic” is considered incorrect (if ever), and I’ll continue using it until then and likely beyond (because, you know, I like being a stubborn jackass about some things! :-))
Just because AP and Chicago get it wrong doesn’t mean we have to follow suit.
February 18th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
Fair enough. You may need to shake your first President Obama, stylebooks, and anyone else who gets in your way next week on the Geek Gab. π
February 18th, 2009 at 9:28 pm
Fair enough. You may need to shake your first President Obama, stylebooks, and anyone else who gets in your way next week on the Geek Gab. π
February 18th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
you’re right. As in, “This is an histerical conversation”. That’s correct.
You should meet up with Grammer Girl… Maybe startbyour own podcast, ‘grammar guy’. π
So… Then… What’s your take on Apple’s use of the word ‘funnest’ when describing the new iPod Touch…. they say, The Funniest iPod Ever.
Great conversation.
February 18th, 2009 at 9:35 pm
you’re right. As in, “This is an histerical conversation”. That’s correct.
You should meet up with Grammer Girl… Maybe startbyour own podcast, ‘grammar guy’. π
So… Then… What’s your take on Apple’s use of the word ‘funnest’ when describing the new iPod Touch…. they say, The Funniest iPod Ever.
Great conversation.
February 19th, 2009 at 3:16 am
Either way, you’ve got to admit it is a much finer argument than words like:
– strategery
– Decider
– etc
If the only language conversation is between “a historical” and “an historical” then we have come a long long way.
As an aside, it is one of the great things about the English language that there are all these nuances. As someone with English and Canadian heritage there are many things about American English that I find odd, or make me gasp.
Finally, you are right, no one writes that “an historic” is wrong, just like no ones writes that “a history” is wrong either.
February 19th, 2009 at 8:16 am
Either way, you’ve got to admit it is a much finer argument than words like:
– strategery
– Decider
– etc
If the only language conversation is between “a historical” and “an historical” then we have come a long long way.
As an aside, it is one of the great things about the English language that there are all these nuances. As someone with English and Canadian heritage there are many things about American English that I find odd, or make me gasp.
Finally, you are right, no one writes that “an historic” is wrong, just like no ones writes that “a history” is wrong either.
February 19th, 2009 at 2:24 pm
You are absolutely correct, Dave.
February 19th, 2009 at 7:24 pm
You are absolutely correct, Dave.
February 19th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
Thanks, Jim. It’s good to be in the club of Those Of Us Who Know We’re Right. π We’ve got jackets, by the way.
And thanks, Hadley. I agree about the nuances being the thing that make English awesome! I think that’s the problem illustrated here. There are a lot of complex rules and nuances that make “an historical” correct, and it seems the Great Unwashed wish to wipe them all away and homogenize our language. Screw that!
Oh, and Hadley — for the record, I believe that both “an historical” and “a history” are both correct, as you stated. It’s all about nuance: in this case the accented syllable is the deciding factor.
February 19th, 2009 at 7:34 pm
Thanks, Jim. It’s good to be in the club of Those Of Us Who Know We’re Rightβ’. π We’ve got jackets, by the way.
And thanks, Hadley. I agree about the nuances being the thing that make English awesome! I think that’s the problem illustrated here. There are a lot of complex rules and nuances that make “an historical” correct, and it seems the Great Unwashed wish to wipe them all away and homogenize our language. Screw that!
Oh, and Hadley — for the record, I believe that both “an historical” and “a history” are both correct, as you stated. It’s all about nuance: in this case the accented syllable is the deciding factor.
June 8th, 2009 at 5:30 am
I would suggest that in order to be “universally correct” you may wish to use the word ‘populace’ in place of ‘populous’ in your post π
June 8th, 2009 at 10:30 am
I would suggest that in order to be “universally correct” you may wish to use the word ‘populace’ in place of ‘populous’ in your post π
June 10th, 2009 at 2:25 am
Thanks Recidivist Stickler! Fixed!
June 10th, 2009 at 7:25 am
Thanks Recidivist Stickler! Fixed!
June 24th, 2010 at 5:11 am
http://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/CMS_FAQ/Usage/Usage78.html
Q. Is it an historical novel or a historical novel?
A. In Chicago style, its a historical novel. Please see CMOS 5.73: With the indefinite article, the choice of a or an depends on the sound of the word it precedes. A comes before words with a consonant sound, including /y/, /h/, and /w/, no matter how the word is spelled {a eulogy} {a hotel suite} {a Ouachita tribe member}. An comes before words with a vowel sound {an LSAT exam room} {an X-Files episode} {an hour ago}. See also 5.202, 7.46, 15.9.
June 24th, 2010 at 10:11 am
http://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/CMS_FAQ/Usage/Usage78.html
Q. Is it an historical novel or a historical novel?
A. In Chicago style, itβs a historical novel. Please see CMOS 5.73: βWith the indefinite article, the choice of a or an depends on the sound of the word it precedes. A comes before words with a consonant sound, including /y/, /h/, and /w/, no matter how the word is spelled {a eulogy} {a hotel suite} {a Ouachita tribe member}. An comes before words with a vowel sound {an LSAT exam room} {an X-Files episode} {an hour ago}. See also 5.202, 7.46, 15.9.β
July 28th, 2011 at 12:38 pm
This reminds me of another change that has occurred over time….it used to be proper to put two spaces after a period and before the beginning of the next sentence. That’s what was taught in typing class in high school.
Now, it’s become the norm, and also indicated in the Chicago Manual of Style, to put only one space after the end of a sentence and before the next sentence.
I agree with you Dave, and I know that in times past, that was the correct way, and the ONLY “correct” way.
July 28th, 2011 at 5:38 pm
This reminds me of another change that has occurred over time….it used to be proper to put two spaces after a period and before the beginning of the next sentence. That’s what was taught in typing class in high school.Now, it’s become the norm, and also indicated in the Chicago Manual of Style, to put only one space after the end of a sentence and before the next sentence.
I agree with you Dave, and I know that in times past, that was the correct way, and the ONLY “correct” way.