PodCamp? No, thanks. Weekends Are For Hobbies.
Podcasting is a serious medium. History has rarely shown us audiences as loyal and eager to consume as those that podcasts deliver. Big business knows this, and big business wants to learn. Some of them are learning — and participating– of course, but most of them are waiting for it to become serious. But in the eyes of many, podcasting isn’t yet serious.
The problem is that we — the podcasting community — are repeatedly sending the message that this is nothing more than a hobby. We’re supporting this concept of podcasting happening in back rooms and basements late into the evenings and on the weekends and at times when it doesn’t interfere with “real work.”
A perfect example of that is the PodCamp concept. The next one, PodCamp NYC, is scheduled for Friday and Saturday, April 6th and 7th. When I saw this I thought, “This is a great move… at least it’s on a Friday and not just Saturday and Sunday like it used to be.” Then, of course, I realized that this particular Friday has a distinction of greatness. Or at least “Goodness“. Holding this event on Good Friday and the Saturday after is just about the worst time to do it. It clearly sends the message that this is nothing more than a hobby.
Why don’t we have these things smack dab in the middle of the week? To a New York City-based media buyer, PodCamp held on Wednesday and Thursday is an awesome excuse to break up the monotony of the workweek while learning something valuable that might help a client down the road. Put the same event on Saturday and Sunday (or, heaven forbid, a holiday), and it’s a royal pain in the ass — something which they’re likely not going to attend unless they’re absolutely forced to go.
Portable Media Expo is the same way. It’s traditionally been held on Friday and Saturday. That’s not been horrible — at least the Friday has been a “normal” Friday. Last year’s PME was so busy that they decided to add a day to the event. Did they add Thursday? Nope. They added Sunday. I like what they’re doing there, and we at The Mac Observer and iPodObserver are happy to be media sponsors, but adding Sunday to that event sends the completely wrong message to the world at large.
This is about business, not hobbies. Business — officially-speaking, anyway — happens during the week, Monday through Friday, 9-5. Hobbies happen outside that time. Of course, those of us in business for ourselves know that work often extends into hobby time, and often the lines are blurred between what’s work and what’s a hobby, but we’re not the ones who need to be convinced and educated about new mediums like podcasting. The folks who *we* need to attend are the ones who leave their desks at 5pm on the button and never think about work between Friday afternoon and Monday morning. Those are the ones who we at BackBeat Media are killing ourselves to educate. It would certainly be a lot easier for us — all of us — if there was some mass-market education happening instead of a weekend gathering inside the echo chamber.
Please… for the sake of all emerging media — for your own sake — please start acting like this is serious business. After all, that minor change in presence is often all it takes to let something grow up big and tall.
Technorati Tags: podcasting, portable media expo, web advertising
February 20th, 2007 at 9:09 pm
Hi Dave– Here’s another way to see the scheduling of PodCamps on weekends- lots of Podcasters are still working their day jobs, and are looking to eventually break out and do something full time with their podcasting efforts, but maybe haven’t gotten over the hump.
Serious or not, bills have to be paid, and it’s a little hard for people not paid by their dayjob employer to convince someone to get a few days off midweek to attend something not directly related to their job.
So the benefit of scheduling PodCamps on weekends is that it allows people to preserve their current employment while permitting them to network and spend quality information exchange and education time with like-minded people, some who do it as a career, and others who are still looking to break out.
Sorry we’ll miss you because of the scheduling, that we might not send you the right message. I’ll be at PodCamp Toronto this weekend meeting everyone from the weekend hobbyist (because they’re people to) to Amber MacArthur from Command N and several other video shows.
Acting like it’s serious business isn’t what pays the bills: learning to get your show to a place where it will pay the bills is. Hope to see you at a future PodCamp.
–Chris Brogan, co-Founder of PodCamp (who got a day job offer *at* PodCamp Boston and who now works full time, seriously, doing new media based on my experience at the event.)
February 21st, 2007 at 2:09 am
Hi Dave– Here’s another way to see the scheduling of PodCamps on weekends- lots of Podcasters are still working their day jobs, and are looking to eventually break out and do something full time with their podcasting efforts, but maybe haven’t gotten over the hump.
Serious or not, bills have to be paid, and it’s a little hard for people not paid by their dayjob employer to convince someone to get a few days off midweek to attend something not directly related to their job.
So the benefit of scheduling PodCamps on weekends is that it allows people to preserve their current employment while permitting them to network and spend quality information exchange and education time with like-minded people, some who do it as a career, and others who are still looking to break out.
Sorry we’ll miss you because of the scheduling, that we might not send you the right message. I’ll be at PodCamp Toronto this weekend meeting everyone from the weekend hobbyist (because they’re people to) to Amber MacArthur from Command N and several other video shows.
Acting like it’s serious business isn’t what pays the bills: learning to get your show to a place where it will pay the bills is. Hope to see you at a future PodCamp.
–Chris Brogan, co-Founder of PodCamp (who got a day job offer *at* PodCamp Boston and who now works full time, seriously, doing new media based on my experience at the event.)
February 20th, 2007 at 9:17 pm
[…] saw this post over at Dave Hamilton’s blog saying that PodCamp wasn’t really taking podcasters […]
February 21st, 2007 at 2:17 am
[…] saw this post over at Dave Hamilton’s blog saying that PodCamp wasn’t really taking podcasters […]
February 20th, 2007 at 9:39 pm
Dave, I have to say, I respectfully disagree. Business does NOT happen 9-5. Business happens 24 x 7 x 365. Emerging and new media happens then, too, from real life events to virtual events. Should Podcamps happen at a time other than weekends? Sure. They should happen whenever organizers want them to, because each Podcamp is autonomous for the most part. If you’d like, you are more than welcome to create a Podcamp New Hampshire or a Podcamp Nano or whatever, whenever you like.
– Christopher Penn, co-Founder of PodCamp, producer of the Financial Aid Podcast, now funding more than $20M in loans!
February 21st, 2007 at 2:39 am
Dave, I have to say, I respectfully disagree. Business does NOT happen 9-5. Business happens 24 x 7 x 365. Emerging and new media happens then, too, from real life events to virtual events. Should Podcamps happen at a time other than weekends? Sure. They should happen whenever organizers want them to, because each Podcamp is autonomous for the most part. If you’d like, you are more than welcome to create a Podcamp New Hampshire or a Podcamp Nano or whatever, whenever you like.
– Christopher Penn, co-Founder of PodCamp, producer of the Financial Aid Podcast, now funding more than $20M in loans!
February 20th, 2007 at 9:59 pm
The two PodCamp cofounders have already stated their cases more eloquently than I can. But, as an attendee of the inaugural PodCamp in Boston, I can tell you, Dave, that questioning the the seriousness of what Chris and Chris and the rest of the podcasting community does is folly. You’re barking up the wrong tree.
Podcasting can be fun and it can be serious business as well. And PodCamps – whether they’re held on weekends, weekdays, or anytime, are seriously well run and informative immersive experiences run by two of the most enthusiastic evangelists I know.
February 21st, 2007 at 2:59 am
The two PodCamp cofounders have already stated their cases more eloquently than I can. But, as an attendee of the inaugural PodCamp in Boston, I can tell you, Dave, that questioning the the seriousness of what Chris and Chris and the rest of the podcasting community does is folly. You’re barking up the wrong tree.
Podcasting can be fun and it can be serious business as well. And PodCamps – whether they’re held on weekends, weekdays, or anytime, are seriously well run and informative immersive experiences run by two of the most enthusiastic evangelists I know.
February 20th, 2007 at 10:39 pm
There is also the education side of the coin. Podcasting is increasingly being used in classrooms around the world as a form of differentiated learning. The majority of the podcasts I listen to are for and by teachers. Our schedules are already set and leaving for an unscheduled conference could really set me back. Leaving the classroom for an event like this would not serve myself or my students.
By having these events over weekends we can bring journalists, business people, entertainers, educators, and nerds together to really push the medium where it needs to go.
February 21st, 2007 at 3:39 am
There is also the education side of the coin. Podcasting is increasingly being used in classrooms around the world as a form of differentiated learning. The majority of the podcasts I listen to are for and by teachers. Our schedules are already set and leaving for an unscheduled conference could really set me back. Leaving the classroom for an event like this would not serve myself or my students.
By having these events over weekends we can bring journalists, business people, entertainers, educators, and nerds together to really push the medium where it needs to go.
February 20th, 2007 at 11:32 pm
Apparently the message sent to our growing list of participants (about 260+ at the time of this reply) and over 50 presenters is that PodCamp NYC is in fact pretty serious. Especially as (like all Podcamps) we aren’t paying any speakers but have attracted the likes of Joseph Jaffe, Reena Jana from BusinessWeek, and Shelly Palmer of Media 3.0 to present their sessions on a holiday weekend.
What’s sad for me is that this condescending post demeans the spirit/labors of the literally thousands of podcast evangelists/enthusiasts who have been involved in the Podcamp movement in under a year. It also assumes (as Chris Penn correctly points out) that business only happens M-F, 9-5. The paradigm created at Podcamp (no barriers to entry, anyone can speak) provides a networking forum unlike any other I’ve discovered to date as it creates a meritocracy not centered around traditional business strictures.
Finally, I agree that Good Friday isn’t an optimum date. But when an organization as savvy and respected as the New School offers up their venue (for free) and those are the only dates available, not taking them up on their offer would be bad business.
John C. Havens
Lead Organizer, PodCamp NYC
About.com Guide to Podcasting
Founder, Podcast Vision and Voice
February 21st, 2007 at 4:32 am
Apparently the message sent to our growing list of participants (about 260+ at the time of this reply) and over 50 presenters is that PodCamp NYC is in fact pretty serious. Especially as (like all Podcamps) we aren’t paying any speakers but have attracted the likes of Joseph Jaffe, Reena Jana from BusinessWeek, and Shelly Palmer of Media 3.0 to present their sessions on a holiday weekend.
What’s sad for me is that this condescending post demeans the spirit/labors of the literally thousands of podcast evangelists/enthusiasts who have been involved in the Podcamp movement in under a year. It also assumes (as Chris Penn correctly points out) that business only happens M-F, 9-5. The paradigm created at Podcamp (no barriers to entry, anyone can speak) provides a networking forum unlike any other I’ve discovered to date as it creates a meritocracy not centered around traditional business strictures.
Finally, I agree that Good Friday isn’t an optimum date. But when an organization as savvy and respected as the New School offers up their venue (for free) and those are the only dates available, not taking them up on their offer would be bad business.
John C. Havens
Lead Organizer, PodCamp NYC
About.com Guide to Podcasting
Founder, Podcast Vision and Voice
February 20th, 2007 at 11:48 pm
Thanks for all your posts. I didn’t mean to insinuate that PodCamp itself is poorly organized or not serious. That’s not at all the case, and I certainly don’t have that belief. Quite the opposite, in fact, and that was the reason for my post (if I felt it was not serious, there would have been no reason to call attention to this).
The problem is that by having these things on weekends, it *spreads* that belief, and we — us podcasters — need to do everything we can to do just the opposite.
I also agree that, for many of us, business happens around the clock (here I am posting at 11:30pm). However, to the great masses out there, “weekend events” are most definitely not interpreted as “business events.” Whether that’s a correct interpretation or not is irrelevant. It’s how the majority of people in the world see things. It’s easy to get caught up in what happens in the [newmedia]-o-sphere(s), but we need to remember that 99% of the world lives outside of all of that. It’s them we need to convince, and part of that involves catering to those people to show them that we are, indeed, serious about what we do.
It *is* possible. Podcasters *can* take days off from their real jobs, and if you are serious about pushing this new business, then that’s exactly what needs to be done. When we started The Mac Observer 9 years ago, that involved a lot of sacrifice — as any new business does — and part of that sacrifice included cutting back my “real” job hours to do this one. Obviously it can all pay off, and I want to see that happen here. But keeping this stuff happening during “off-hours” is going to make that take a LOT longer than it needs to.
February 21st, 2007 at 4:48 am
Thanks for all your posts. I didn’t mean to insinuate that PodCamp itself is poorly organized or not serious. That’s not at all the case, and I certainly don’t have that belief. Quite the opposite, in fact, and that was the reason for my post (if I felt it was not serious, there would have been no reason to call attention to this).
The problem is that by having these things on weekends, it *spreads* that belief, and we — us podcasters — need to do everything we can to do just the opposite.
I also agree that, for many of us, business happens around the clock (here I am posting at 11:30pm). However, to the great masses out there, “weekend events” are most definitely not interpreted as “business events.” Whether that’s a correct interpretation or not is irrelevant. It’s how the majority of people in the world see things. It’s easy to get caught up in what happens in the [newmedia]-o-sphere(s), but we need to remember that 99% of the world lives outside of all of that. It’s them we need to convince, and part of that involves catering to those people to show them that we are, indeed, serious about what we do.
It *is* possible. Podcasters *can* take days off from their real jobs, and if you are serious about pushing this new business, then that’s exactly what needs to be done. When we started The Mac Observer 9 years ago, that involved a lot of sacrifice — as any new business does — and part of that sacrifice included cutting back my “real” job hours to do this one. Obviously it can all pay off, and I want to see that happen here. But keeping this stuff happening during “off-hours” is going to make that take a LOT longer than it needs to.
February 20th, 2007 at 11:54 pm
Actually, I was just replying to someone via e-mail here and said the following. Perhaps this will help shed some light on this in a way that I hadn’t thus far:
Unfortunately, I’m committed to family plans the weekend of Good Friday (with kids in school, we take family time when we can!). That said, I would *love* to attend a PodCamp someday. That was, in fact, part of the frustration that caused me to make this post. Every time one of these PodCamps comes up, I’m already committed to something that weekend, family-wise or something else of a personal nature, and am unable to attend. If it was the Wednesday and Thursday prior to that, I’d be there… with bells on. But that’s just the point I’m trying to make. I *know* I’m not alone. As a family man with a wife and two children, business — especially travel — is often limited to that which can be acccomplished during the week… i.e. “normal” work hours.
February 21st, 2007 at 4:54 am
Actually, I was just replying to someone via e-mail here and said the following. Perhaps this will help shed some light on this in a way that I hadn’t thus far:
Unfortunately, I’m committed to family plans the weekend of Good Friday (with kids in school, we take family time when we can!). That said, I would *love* to attend a PodCamp someday. That was, in fact, part of the frustration that caused me to make this post. Every time one of these PodCamps comes up, I’m already committed to something that weekend, family-wise or something else of a personal nature, and am unable to attend. If it was the Wednesday and Thursday prior to that, I’d be there… with bells on. But that’s just the point I’m trying to make. I *know* I’m not alone. As a family man with a wife and two children, business — especially travel — is often limited to that which can be acccomplished during the week… i.e. “normal” work hours.
February 21st, 2007 at 12:07 am
You could always run a PodCamp during the week. I bet there are other people who value their weekends and think that they could get time off during the week to go to a PodCamp.
February 21st, 2007 at 5:07 am
You could always run a PodCamp during the week. I bet there are other people who value their weekends and think that they could get time off during the week to go to a PodCamp.
February 21st, 2007 at 6:09 am
And perhaps, with time, Podcamp will evolve into “Podcamp”- a week long summer time event, just like summer camp, where we geek out all day and sing camp fire songs at night. (perhaps it shows I’m trying to plan the children’s summer camps at the moment).
Reality is that unconferences don’t charge and are organized by volunteers. This is grassroots, this is a passion over profit enterprise.
And I, too, am on my way to Toronto for my second Podcamp, and I would move heaven and Earth to attend, because it’s THAT important. I’ve scheduled the time we spend for the kids’ spring break around hitting NYC April 6 & 7 for Podcamp NYC and have helped organize it from a distance. Why? because if you are serious about podcasting and new media, you have to get to know your peers. We all sit in these little rooms with our computers and mics,but if this is social media, people, we need to actually get to know others, what they’re doing differently and share.
Or we can continue to treat our podcasting like a hobby, like that novel that sits in the drawer, and never take the risks necessary to expand our horizons and make our podcasting a priority.
It may have a name that sounds like a geeks & freaks convention, but there is not a more serious or worthwhile conference you can attend. And the price is right.
Who knows? Maybe more podcast and social media conferences will proliferate- and they certainly will cost more to attend.
But Dave, while I agree making it like a ‘regular conference’ might get some different people to attend, I think giving up weekend time to pursue your passions is identical whether you work in a woodshop, knit, or paint on weekends. If it matters enough to you, you’ll make it happen.
February 21st, 2007 at 11:09 am
And perhaps, with time, Podcamp will evolve into “Podcamp”- a week long summer time event, just like summer camp, where we geek out all day and sing camp fire songs at night. (perhaps it shows I’m trying to plan the children’s summer camps at the moment).
Reality is that unconferences don’t charge and are organized by volunteers. This is grassroots, this is a passion over profit enterprise.
And I, too, am on my way to Toronto for my second Podcamp, and I would move heaven and Earth to attend, because it’s THAT important. I’ve scheduled the time we spend for the kids’ spring break around hitting NYC April 6 & 7 for Podcamp NYC and have helped organize it from a distance. Why? because if you are serious about podcasting and new media, you have to get to know your peers. We all sit in these little rooms with our computers and mics,but if this is social media, people, we need to actually get to know others, what they’re doing differently and share.
Or we can continue to treat our podcasting like a hobby, like that novel that sits in the drawer, and never take the risks necessary to expand our horizons and make our podcasting a priority.
It may have a name that sounds like a geeks & freaks convention, but there is not a more serious or worthwhile conference you can attend. And the price is right.
Who knows? Maybe more podcast and social media conferences will proliferate- and they certainly will cost more to attend.
But Dave, while I agree making it like a ‘regular conference’ might get some different people to attend, I think giving up weekend time to pursue your passions is identical whether you work in a woodshop, knit, or paint on weekends. If it matters enough to you, you’ll make it happen.
February 21st, 2007 at 6:51 am
Dave,
I have to wonder how much experience you have in attenting trade shows in the world of communications? Did you know that most of the CableTV industry grew up in the United States by hosting their events and their core meetings over the weekend? Sure, this year the National Cable Show is taking place on a Mon-Wed but all of the important meetings take place over the weekend.
The CES is famous for holding court over the weekend. Same can be said about the annual PTC events in Honolulu. To be totally dismissive about an industry sector soley based on the timing of a meeting means you are missing out on the real opportunity presented.
And to Whitney’s point – I’m happy to co-host a Summer PodCamp that takes place during the week and see where we go from there. It would be “Summer Camp” for those so inclined for some fun. But that’s what I thought some look at Burning Man for. Burning Man Long Island would never be as much fun…
February 21st, 2007 at 11:51 am
Dave,
I have to wonder how much experience you have in attenting trade shows in the world of communications? Did you know that most of the CableTV industry grew up in the United States by hosting their events and their core meetings over the weekend? Sure, this year the National Cable Show is taking place on a Mon-Wed but all of the important meetings take place over the weekend.
The CES is famous for holding court over the weekend. Same can be said about the annual PTC events in Honolulu. To be totally dismissive about an industry sector soley based on the timing of a meeting means you are missing out on the real opportunity presented.
And to Whitney’s point – I’m happy to co-host a Summer PodCamp that takes place during the week and see where we go from there. It would be “Summer Camp” for those so inclined for some fun. But that’s what I thought some look at Burning Man for. Burning Man Long Island would never be as much fun…
February 21st, 2007 at 8:56 am
[…] post about weekend scheduling of Podcasting Industry events elicited quite a flurry of comments (both on the blog and off), and it’s good that people are […]
February 21st, 2007 at 1:56 pm
[…] post about weekend scheduling of Podcasting Industry events elicited quite a flurry of comments (both on the blog and off), and it’s good that people are […]
February 21st, 2007 at 10:22 am
Interesting point, but isn’t podcasting a nascent industry? Most nascent industries are pioneered by individuals who have jobs (at first) and do the tinkering in their spare time.
To make matters more interesting, podcasting is one of those things that can be done effectively by big business and by individuals as a hobby (and all in between). And it is – regularly. It can be big business. It can be a hobby. It can be both.
I don’t think it is wrong to keep the dual perception (hobby and business) because it is accurate. It depends on who is doing the podcasting.
Now – should you have events that address them jointly? separately? I don’t know since I am not a new media type. I’m just a finance guy 🙂
–Marco
February 21st, 2007 at 3:22 pm
Interesting point, but isn’t podcasting a nascent industry? Most nascent industries are pioneered by individuals who have jobs (at first) and do the tinkering in their spare time.
To make matters more interesting, podcasting is one of those things that can be done effectively by big business and by individuals as a hobby (and all in between). And it is – regularly. It can be big business. It can be a hobby. It can be both.
I don’t think it is wrong to keep the dual perception (hobby and business) because it is accurate. It depends on who is doing the podcasting.
Now – should you have events that address them jointly? separately? I don’t know since I am not a new media type. I’m just a finance guy 🙂
–Marco
February 21st, 2007 at 2:02 pm
Dave, I just wanted to say that I find it a little funny to say that holding a big event over a weekend somehow implies that it isn’t serious because I come at podcasting at least in part from the music and radio world. Tell someone in the music or broadcast biz that MIDEM, NAB, South by Southwest or Canadian Music Week (to name a few) aren’t serious ‘cus they extend over weekends and they will laugh. This goes to what Jeff P said as well, it all depends on your paradigm.
Thanks,
Jay Moonah
PodCamp Toronto Co-organizer
member of Podsafe band Uncle Seth
February 21st, 2007 at 7:02 pm
Dave, I just wanted to say that I find it a little funny to say that holding a big event over a weekend somehow implies that it isn’t serious because I come at podcasting at least in part from the music and radio world. Tell someone in the music or broadcast biz that MIDEM, NAB, South by Southwest or Canadian Music Week (to name a few) aren’t serious ‘cus they extend over weekends and they will laugh. This goes to what Jeff P said as well, it all depends on your paradigm.
Thanks,
Jay Moonah
PodCamp Toronto Co-organizer
member of Podsafe band Uncle Seth
February 21st, 2007 at 3:02 pm
Jay… I was going to make the same point! Car shows are also typically held on weekends.
On a tangent, this got me thinking about the arts and sports industries. Does the fact that rock concerts, orchestra and theatre performances, and major sporting events take place on evenings and weekends make them hobbies and diminish them as businesses?
Mark
February 21st, 2007 at 8:02 pm
Jay… I was going to make the same point! Car shows are also typically held on weekends.
On a tangent, this got me thinking about the arts and sports industries. Does the fact that rock concerts, orchestra and theatre performances, and major sporting events take place on evenings and weekends make them hobbies and diminish them as businesses?
Mark
February 21st, 2007 at 3:17 pm
Respectfully, Mark and Jay are also missing the point of my post (perhaps the follow-up today helps clarify?). I agree that this is all serious stuff. It’s not me you need to convince of that. It’s all the people that *aren’t* reading this (or any) blog that *we* need to convince. And one step towards doing that is organizing (some) things on *their* schedule. That’s all I’m saying. Otherwise it will take forever to get their attention.
February 21st, 2007 at 8:17 pm
Respectfully, Mark and Jay are also missing the point of my post (perhaps the follow-up today helps clarify?). I agree that this is all serious stuff. It’s not me you need to convince of that. It’s all the people that *aren’t* reading this (or any) blog that *we* need to convince. And one step towards doing that is organizing (some) things on *their* schedule. That’s all I’m saying. Otherwise it will take forever to get their attention.
February 21st, 2007 at 8:16 pm
Dave, respectfully, if “they are not reading this”, we do not need to convince them of anything. We need to focus our attention on those who are reading, listening and creating… They are the only ones who matter.
I elalborate more on this audiance theme here if anyone cares to follow it.
http://steves2cents.blogspot.com/2006/10/fire-circle-story.html
February 22nd, 2007 at 1:16 am
Dave, respectfully, if “they are not reading this”, we do not need to convince them of anything. We need to focus our attention on those who are reading, listening and creating… They are the only ones who matter.
I elalborate more on this audiance theme here if anyone cares to follow it.
http://steves2cents.blogspot.com/2006/10/fire-circle-story.html
March 2nd, 2007 at 11:31 pm
[…] Dave Hamilton on PME during weekends […]
March 3rd, 2007 at 4:31 am
[…] Dave Hamilton on PME during weekends […]